Curse

Centaur · Apr 20, 2010, 02:12 PM // 14:12

@Azunai: why play Guild Wars at all if the human imperfection is such a problem to you?

Fact is, a human cannot possibly hope to achieve the same reflexes as a well written bot, so a bot will always have an unfair advantage over a human player. And that is exactly the point: using bots is not fair to your fellow human players; it's cheating.

If all you care about is win, win, win, then please go play a game where you don't have to compete against fellow humans. If you choose a game that does involve competing against (or playing with) fellow humans, then you will need to accept their imperfections and play by the rules.

Bottom line: I hope Anet will ban all players who use bots.

RhanoctJocosa · Apr 20, 2010, 02:16 PM // 14:16

cool, more free glads =)

Sankt Hallvard · Apr 20, 2010, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beta Sprite

http://progressquest.com/

lol, now THAT's what I'm talkin bout!

"Progress Quest belongs to a new breed of "fire and forget" RPG's. There is no need to interact with Progress Quest at all; it will make progress with you or without you. "

_azunai · Apr 20, 2010, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centaur

@Azunai: why play Guild Wars at all if the human imperfection is such a problem to you?

Fact is, a human cannot possibly hope to achieve the same reflexes as a well written bot, so a bot will always have an unfair advantage over a human player. And that is exactly the point: using bots is not fair to your fellow human players; it's cheating.

If all you care about is win, win, win, then please go play a game where you don't have to compete against fellow humans. If you choose a game that does involve competing against (or playing with) fellow humans, then you will need to accept their imperfections and play by the rules.

Bottom line: I hope Anet will ban all players who use bots.

sry man, as i said some lines before, i do NOT play guild wars anymore xD
--> if i dont play gw i cant use bots right ?

Centaur · Apr 20, 2010, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by _azunai

sry man, as i said some lines before, i do NOT play guild wars anymore xD
--> if i dont play gw i cant use bots right ?

In my book, creating and supplying bots to other people who do still play GW is just as bad... if not worse.

Killed u man · Apr 20, 2010, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot Narita

With bots at that level of sophistication, I wonder what A-Net can really do about it?
Introduce captcha or somesuch before each match? I can see that happening. And for PvE too.
Stick head in sand?
Remove PVP from the game? Like Hero Battles? LOL

All the current bots use a graphics.dll I think. I don't know the exact workings of it, but I have been told, by a person who creates bots himself, Anet CAN detect injections in the GW.exe process, aka the bot reading the packets and sending out new ones.

All they need to do is the pull out the banhammer once. Ban the easily 1000+ botters atm (sidefact: which are pretty much all euro's -germans mostly- lulz), no second chance, no nothing.

Watch how many people would risk botting again. I don't think so.

Martin Alvito · Apr 20, 2010, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Did pulling out the banhammer stop PvE botting? I don't think so. The problem is similar; winning in RA makes zkeys, which can be resold.

Until (unless) ANet figures out a solution to the problem, all you can do is attack the bot at its points of weakness. You note that the bot cannot pre-Veil, and that it can detect Shame/Backfire/Diversion. What does it do when these hexes land on it? Stop casting for the duration?

If so, the solution is obvious. If not, you can exploit its response.

dr love · Apr 20, 2010, 03:28 PM // 15:28

at least people will never complain about not enough monks in RA... that's about all you can ask for.

Coverticus · Apr 20, 2010, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

All the current bots use a graphics.dll

This is certainly the most popular DLL around that can be injected yes, as it exposes a whole raft of powerful methods to the programmer/hacker. I admit I have looked at it from a curiosity point of view and can easily see that this DLL/source code in the hands of any competant programmer will make a mockery of any match. And I have no doubt more complex and efficient bots will surface utilising this.

Unfortunately there is no fool proof way of preventing DLL injections as there are so many ways of doing it. Also detecting the injection can be very difficult too, so I do not envy ANet at all in trying to prevent it. As Martin has already pointed out, PvE farming bots have been around for donkeys years now and they still run, all using similar techniques to how this one does (I would assume).

Blanket banning may be a solution but solid evidence again will be required - but this point scares me thinking back to the "117" and how that was handled.

Freequency · Apr 20, 2010, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

All the current bots use a graphics.dll I think. I don't know the exact workings of it, but I have been told, by a person who creates bots himself, Anet CAN detect injections in the GW.exe process, aka the bot reading the packets and sending out new ones.

All they need to do is the pull out the banhammer once. Ban the easily 1000+ botters atm (sidefact: which are pretty much all euro's -germans mostly- lulz), no second chance, no nothing.

Watch how many people would risk botting again. I don't think so.

Phail...

Better yet, we should form a clan of Elite Bot Hunters! E.B.H it could be the New Anet Bot Guild! [NABG]. We could camp out in botting locations like UW/FOW/BH ect and sit there and report players! OR create a bot to detect bots! FABULOUS IDEA!

Still Phail....

Zodiac Meteor · Apr 20, 2010, 03:51 PM // 15:51

.DLL is more trouble than you might think.

You don't have to see that broad head arrow to dodge it, once the character does the animation Texmod can change it to a bright white 255, 255, 255 and the character moves. Hammer knockdowns? No problem with the color 255, 255, 254, once that exact color of white appears they use their stances.

It's easier than you might think, playing a monk is hard and I'm surprised that the programmer went from rupt spam to flawless healer.

Riot Narita · Apr 20, 2010, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Did pulling out the banhammer stop PvE botting? I don't think so.

Remember what they did to HFFF botters? Well since the poor dears "felt compelled to bot", A-Net just gave them a slap on the wrist and let them get away with it. Not exactly a deterrent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by _azunai

sry man, as i said some lines before, i do NOT play guild wars anymore xD

Cos your bot is playing it for you?

reaper with no name · Apr 20, 2010, 04:24 PM // 16:24

You're assuming that they went straight from interrupts to monking (who knows what kinds of bots they may have developed in the interim), and that there is only one. I haven't researched any of this myself, so I don't know how similar the code of all the various bots of each type are, but I imagine there are probably several versions that developed independently of one another.

Fortunately, this particular bot does not appear flawless, either (nor is that really even possible). It certainly has a better reaction time than a human, and a human with a bot will always be better than one without, but if this one works alone, then it suffers from the inability to predict spikes (though it can react to them sooner, assuming it hasn't been tricked into burning too much energy), remove conditions (this vulnerability can be easily fixed, of course), or prot people intelligently. One could also, of course, exploit the predictability of it's behavior.

However, none of this makes it any less cheating. Even if bots were so bad that only the newest of the newbies couldn't beat it, botters would still be icky scummy rotten cheaters.

I think it's worth noting, however, that if such a bot is publically available, then there are almost certainly more sophisticated ones running around that have not been released (either better monk bots or some other type of bot).

Phineas · Apr 20, 2010, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

.DLL is more trouble than you might think.

You don't have to see that broad head arrow to dodge it, once the character does the animation Texmod can change it to a bright white 255, 255, 255 and the character moves. Hammer knockdowns? No problem with the color 255, 255, 254, once that exact color of white appears they use their stances.

It's easier than you might think, playing a monk is hard and I'm surprised that the programmer went from rupt spam to flawless healer.

TexMod isn't going to help here if the player is looking the wrong way in first-person view. Forget the colors and TexMod, the DLL routines can identify what attacks are coming before they even appear on screen.

I used to observe some PvP when this was made popular around the end of last year, and I used to laugh at the rangers spinning on a six-pence as their bot targetted first one person then someone else, then another... Whilst I presume that there probably are players out there who can competently cycle through all targets and rupt a good percentage, I was still amazed that what looked like such obvious bot-behaviour could not be spotted by ANet. The main problem most likely is that it needs to be seen to be believed. Anet are probably not going to write something to analyse the behaviour of every player in every instance of every type of PvP because, at the end of the day, it is possible that the player IS behaving that way. It's a very sticky issue which could lead to far too many false-positives that may result in the loss of good will.

sunec · Apr 20, 2010, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

.DLL is more trouble than you might think.

You don't have to see that broad head arrow to dodge it, once the character does the animation Texmod can change it to a bright white 255, 255, 255 and the character moves. Hammer knockdowns? No problem with the color 255, 255, 254, once that exact color of white appears they use their stances.

It's easier than you might think, playing a monk is hard and I'm surprised that the programmer went from rupt spam to flawless healer.

What are you talking about? I don't think any bot developer with just the slightest bit of pride would ever use pixel detection.

If this reaches the point where you practically can't enter a match without ending up with 2-3 monks on your team, then it's kinda sad though - then RA would probably be left deserted quite fast.
Can't deny the fun it would be to watch 7 (since you're watching) monk bots running around for 8 full minutes though xD

Crazy monk Cro · Apr 20, 2010, 05:23 PM // 17:23

BAN THEM ALL FFS....i cant even play this shit anymore becouse of that crap..it was only game without bots ...now its pice of crap like all others...FCK THEM UP!!

Orange Milk · Apr 20, 2010, 05:28 PM // 17:28

There have been Warrior bots in RA forever, they are bad, but they are there none the less. THere is a thread in the Gladiator section some wheres a while back about them.

So IF botting is sooo popular it should'nt take much more than a Dev playing RA for a few hours to spot one, from there they can watch it and see what's what.

Jarge · Apr 20, 2010, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Lolbots. Bots are easy to exploit. Rupt bots are easy to fake-out. Stance bots are easy to abuse. Dodging your BHA? Go to touch range and use a shortbow - good rangers do this anyway.
I'd rather face a bot than a good real monk tbh.
RA isn't exactly srs bsns anyway..

Paradise Lost · Apr 20, 2010, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Same old crusade thats been going on for 5 years. Nobody is that bothered.

jiggles · Apr 20, 2010, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Makes me wonder how bad bots are in Dragon Arena these days.

Thankfully they haven't evolved past running towards each team member in turn